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Onboard P&O's Oceana with JollyJill and friends!

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Onboard P&O's Oceana with JollyJill and friends!

Postby octocruiser » 16 May 2016 10:35

Dave wrote:
octocruiser wrote:I had to smile yesterday when Simon Calder, the Beeb travel 'expert' was answering a question from a viewer about why cruise ships charge single passengers 120% more to book a double cabin for single use.

His explanation was that ships costings are based on 100% occupancy and therefore they will charge a single use of double not only for the spare bed but for anything the second passenger would have spent on board.

I have no doubt it does work something like this, but 100% occupancy ? In their dreams. :lol: !!!!

It has to be a very popular cruise to acheive 100% occupancy and even then some cabins will have been filled at a discount. I would say to expect an average across the board of 85-90% even after discounting would be much more realistic.

I once made an enquiry about booking single occupancy with Thomson and was told the cost of the cabin would be more than 100% extra, although I don't think it was as much as 120%. When I expressed my surprise, the Thomson consultant suggested I book for two people - and the 'other' simply wouldn't turn up.

I think the real problem here is that accommodation on cruise ships is almost exclusively for 'normal' people - that is, couples. It's difficult to get accurate figures for the percentage of single adults in the UK, but it's at least 10% and probably a fair bit more. But it's cost effective for cruise lines to provide only (or nearly only) for couples, and there's no legislation to protect the interests of adults who are single. I think this is a form of discrimination that needs to be addressed.


The 120% may be a bit over the top as he quoted actual figures and I had translated it into a % with my dodgy maths :oops: but it was significNtly more than 100%.

I would question if new build hotels ashore nowadays are ever built with designated single rooms . It is normal practise to offer the same room at one price if used as a twin or double and a different price if used as a single. This gives flexibilty with catering to different types of trade - generally they will get higher single occupancy during the week with business travellers and higher twin/double occupancy at weekends with leisure travellers. They can regulate for seasonal and 'event' type differences by adjusting the proportion they will allow to be sold as singles at any time.

Obviously ships are rather different as they tend to cater for longer bookings in specific blocks and every square inch of floor space needs to be put to good use as floor space is limited by the nature of the vessel. They have the same flexibility to let doubles as singles as hotels ashore and usually do that. Obviously they want optimum occupancy so will only designate limited numbers of cabins as singles initially but often when sales are sticking will offer better rates - but it is usually late bookers who get the benefit of this. On the other hand, if you hang on and wait for a particular cruise to do this it may never happen.

More often than not people that I have met cruising solo either have a double bed or another single or space for one in their cabin. The unlucky ones get the cabins that have been squeezed into an odd 'leftover' space that wasn't quite big enough for double use - usually they are the ones who booked early :(
Generally a single room takes up more than half the floor space that a double use one does - in fact it needs almost all the space a double does except for a 6 x 3 bed, an extra chair and a bit more hanging space. It still needs a bathroom and 'standing ' space. So they actually have less capacity if they create specifically single cabins.

So they have the ability to cater for more single travellers by routinely allocating more cabins for single use but it probably would require legislation to get it done - and of course all prices would rise accordingly - and for singles to be generally sold at the same price as the per person rate in a twin room would mean a fairly steep rise in all prices .
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Postby Skier Pete » 16 May 2016 15:37

octocruiser wrote:
I have no doubt it does work something like this, but 100% occupancy ? In their dreams. :lol: !!!!

It has to be a very popular cruise to acheive 100% occupancy and even then some cabins will have been filled at a discount. I would say to expect an average across the board of 85-90% even after discounting would be much more realistic.

There are two measures of occupancy

A) 100% at double occupancy or lower berth occupancy. That is to say two guests in every cabin,

Obviously this number is twice the number of cabins

Take MSC Orchestra, cabins = 1275 100% at double occupancy = 2550 guests

But there are cabins with 3 or even 4 berths, this is

B) the ALL BERTHS occupancy

So for Orchestra this is 3013 guests.

So if they had 2880 guests they would probably quote the occupancy rate as 113% (based on lower berths) whereas the true answer is 95.6%.

they will never cruise with all berths full as they need some spare cabins in case an occupied one becomes unserviceable , eg flood, power failure in the cabin. etc.
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Postby tomvet » 16 May 2016 19:15

Dave wrote:
octocruiser wrote:I had to smile yesterday when Simon Calder, the Beeb travel 'expert' was answering a question from a viewer about why cruise ships charge single passengers 120% more to book a double cabin for single use.

His explanation was that ships costings are based on 100% occupancy and therefore they will charge a single use of double not only for the spare bed but for anything the second passenger would have spent on board.

I have no doubt it does work something like this, but 100% occupancy ? In their dreams. :lol: !!!!

It has to be a very popular cruise to acheive 100% occupancy and even then some cabins will have been filled at a discount. I would say to expect an average across the board of 85-90% even after discounting would be much more realistic.

I once made an enquiry about booking single occupancy with Thomson and was told the cost of the cabin would be more than 100% extra, although I don't think it was as much as 120%. When I expressed my surprise, the Thomson consultant suggested I book for two people - and the 'other' simply wouldn't turn up.

I think the real problem here is that accommodation on cruise ships is almost exclusively for 'normal' people - that is, couples. It's difficult to get accurate figures for the percentage of single adults in the UK, but it's at least 10% and probably a fair bit more. But it's cost effective for cruise lines to provide only (or nearly only) for couples, and there's no legislation to protect the interests of adults who are single. I think this is a form of discrimination that needs to be addressed.


Actually there is Dave. One of the 7 grounds that you cannot be discriminated on is 'marital status'. Not sure how that fits in to cruise line occupancies. You can also be discriminated on age grounds but that does not make adult only ships unlawful! :think: :think: :? :?
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Re: Onboard P&O's Oceana with JollyJill and friends!

Postby tomvet » 16 May 2016 19:22

Ocean was in Ajaccio today. Jill

stayed on board today while Plunky went for a walk with the camera ..........and watched a film in the theatre in the afternoon


It looks like they will make tomorrow a sea day also as they

will not be going into ROme tomorrow and [are] not inspired by Civitavecchia


At least the weather is good


Looks like things have not gotten any better with Jill's final summation as follows:

This is definitely a get what you pay for cruise . Not to be repeated ...............
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Postby Mungo » 16 May 2016 20:12

Oh dear! :think:

I'm not going into Rome either on my next cruise. Been there numerous times! However hubby and I are actually looking forward to exploring Civitavecchia. Starting to research. :mrgreen:

http://civitavecchia.co.uk/
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Postby Skier Pete » 16 May 2016 20:27

Mungo wrote:Oh dear! :think:

I'm not going into Rome either on my next cruise. Been there numerous times! However hubby and I are actually looking forward to exploring Civitavecchia. Starting to research. :mrgreen:

http://civitavecchia.co.uk/

There is a small amount of info in my review from Dec 2014 Sinfonia Nov - Dec 2014
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Postby Trace » 16 May 2016 20:28

We have been to Rome twice on ships tours and loved it both times, especially last May when we walked it all, would definitely go again, but next time on the train to get there earlier so hopefully miss the queues for the Vatican.

I am pleased Jill enjoyed Villefranche, we loved it there too, happy memories of our first tender port.

Such a shame they not enjoying the ship,sounds like a different Oceana that we were on a year this Wednesday, just shows how a ship/cruise can differ from time to time if that makes sense. I know Stan enjoyed it last time he was on it, so why do P&O let their standards slip?
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Postby Mungo » 16 May 2016 21:48

Skier Pete wrote:
Mungo wrote:Oh dear! :think:

I'm not going into Rome either on my next cruise. Been there numerous times! However hubby and I are actually looking forward to exploring Civitavecchia. Starting to research. :mrgreen:

http://civitavecchia.co.uk/

There is a small amount of info in my review from Dec 2014 Sinfonia Nov - Dec 2014


Thanks Pete. :thumbup: As we're going in July we hopefully can spend some time at the beach. :mrgreen:
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Postby tomvet » 16 May 2016 22:01

Skier Pete wrote:
Mungo wrote:Oh dear! :think:

I'm not going into Rome either on my next cruise. Been there numerous times! However hubby and I are actually looking forward to exploring Civitavecchia. Starting to research. :mrgreen:

http://civitavecchia.co.uk/

There is a small amount of info in my review from Dec 2014 Sinfonia Nov - Dec 2014


Pete is not afraid to bump it either! :D
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Postby grannyM » 17 May 2016 09:14

Mungo wrote:
Skier Pete wrote:
Mungo wrote:Oh dear! :think:

I'm not going into Rome either on my next cruise. Been there numerous times! However hubby and I are actually looking forward to exploring Civitavecchia. Starting to research. :mrgreen:

http://civitavecchia.co.uk/

There is a small amount of info in my review from Dec 2014 Sinfonia Nov - Dec 2014


Thanks Pete. :thumbup: As we're going in July we hopefully can spend some time at the beach. :mrgreen:


Sue, we've been to Civitavecchia a few times and the ships' shuttles used to drop off right in the centre of the city. However last year because of road works around this area the ships' shuttles were being dropped off in a car park a long walk from there. It could be that the road works have been completed, but perhaps not, so be prepared for a long and uninspiring walk to the centre of the city and the beach. It is a lovely walk along the promenade and beach so I'm sure you will enjoy it once you get there. We are going in June and although we will probably go to Rome I will try and find out on the ship about the shuttle bus situation for you. :)
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