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Holiday injections

Re: Holiday injections

Postby Skier Pete » 24 May 2014 09:57

tomvet wrote:
Skier Pete wrote:
tomvet wrote:Apart from Yellow Fever which is a legal requirement for entry to some countries after being to others - the rest are a complete waste of time and are just a raquet for the medics and the drug companies. The chances of you picking up anything that you are vaccinated against are slim problem is the things that are most likely make you sick, there are no vaccines available.

My BIL managed to get Dengue Fever on a visit to Bali, so there are risks with insect bourne diseases such as Dengue (No vaccine or preventative medication) and Malaria.(No vacccine but there are four classes of preventative medication)

When we questioned our GP about the side effects of the anti malarial "LARIAM" (which was recommended for our 18 day trip around China) as it had a bad press for its psychcological side-effects; his simple answer was
"Malaria has a side effect:-- DEATH". We took the Lariam as presribed.



........................... as I said the things most likely to get you are those diseases that no vaccine exists .....

As regards your GP - sounds very much like he is very much risk averse - there are other ways to prevent contracting malaria as mentioned by Avid - point is he mentioned the worst and least likely outcome of the condition without any mention of the liklihood of contracting it in the first place to help you formulate your decision. I use the word help with a little caution as to me his advice was at best unhelpful and off handish.

His advice was sound as it took into consideration the much vaunted and overstated neurological and pyschiatric side effects., and allayed our fears of that problem.

The other precautions are some what effective but are , IMHO, additional to and not instead of medicinal precautions. The combination of medicines and "dress" precautions is very, very, effective, and made even more so by adopting other precautions such as not leaving your balcony window open whilst in port, and perhaps using an electrical anti-insect vapourisor in your cabin.

Our GP is extremely good, as in fact he diagnosed a condition I developed, sent me to hospital (the largest teaching hospital in Wales) where in 10 days of tests and observation, under the care of 3 professors, they were unable to give a diagnosis, and following a further 3 weeks of out patients visits finally agreed with the initial diagnosis.
He had never seen a case before but he was spot on. The condiion I had ......................... A severe allergic reaction to tetracyclin (Steven Johnson Syndrome)
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Re: Holiday injections

Postby octocruiser » 24 May 2014 12:28

tomvet wrote:Apart from Yellow Fever which is a legal requirement for entry to some countries after being to others - the rest are a complete waste of time and are just a raquet for the medics and the drug companies. The chances of you picking up anything that you are vaccinated against are slim problem is the things that are most likely make you sick, there are no vaccines available.



Sorry, Tom, but I think that is a dangerous throwaway comment. As with insurance and some other things in life you do it as a precaution and hope the risk never arises anyway.

Travellers come in all shapes, sizes and different susceptibilities to hazards and exposure to disease. What advice suits a strapping healthy male in his prime will not necessarily be good advice for those who already have a health problem and are less resistant to disease through reduced immunity.

This obviously includes both the oldest and the youngest travellers.

Would you really brush off immunisation as being unnecessary on behalf of your young children who cannot make that decision for themselves.

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Re: Holiday injections

Postby tomvet » 24 May 2014 13:22

octocruiser wrote:
tomvet wrote:Apart from Yellow Fever which is a legal requirement for entry to some countries after being to others - the rest are a complete waste of time and are just a raquet for the medics and the drug companies. The chances of you picking up anything that you are vaccinated against are slim problem is the things that are most likely make you sick, there are no vaccines available.



Sorry, Tom, but I think that is a dangerous throwaway comment. As with insurance and some other things in life you do it as a precaution and hope the risk never arises anyway.

Travellers come in all shapes, sizes and different susceptibilities to hazards and exposure to disease. What advice suits a strapping healthy male in his prime will not necessarily be good advice for those who already have a health problem and are less resistant to disease through reduced immunity.

This obviously includes both the oldest and the youngest travellers.

Would you really brush off immunisation as being unnecessary on behalf of your young children who cannot make that decision for themselves.

Xxx


As regards the kids (and you are being emotive here and so too are the people that sell all things relating to kids including immunisation), certain immunisations are necessary i.e. whooping cough, HIB, menC, polio, TB, tetanus etc as they are highly contagious, ubiquitious and endemic and have severe consequences - the liklihood of contracting them are high and the severity if they occur are high. However, if you look at most travel sites the recommendation is that one is vaccinated against Rabies - agreed the severity if infected is high but the liklihood of it occurring is minute! Therefore, I would pass on that one! What are the chances of being bitten by a dog or being intimate with a bat (the flying variety!) when on a holiday if you take just reasonable precautions!

We tend to focus too much on the outcome if infected and really do not consider the liklihood of getting infected in the first place!
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Holiday injections

Postby octocruiser » 24 May 2014 13:55

As regards the kids (and you are being emotive here and so too are the people that sell all things relating to kids including immunisation), certain immunisations are necessary i.e. whooping cough, HIB, menC, polio, TB, tetanus etc as they are highly contagious, ubiquitious and endemic and have severe consequences - the liklihood of contracting them are high and the severity if they occur are high. However, if you look at most travel sites the recommendation is that one is vaccinated against Rabies - agreed the severity if infected is high but the liklihood of it occurring is minute! Therefore, I would pass on that one! What are the chances of being bitten by a dog or being intimate with a bat (the flying variety!) when on a holiday if you take just reasonable precautions!

We tend to focus too much on the outcome if infected and really do not consider the liklihood of getting infected in the first place!



OK, Tom, I'm being emotive. :roll:

But sensible, logical people like yourself also apply similar arguments to buying a lottery ticket.

The fact remains that a number of people become millionaires every week by buying a lottery ticket and a great many more win life changing sums of money...... ;)

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Holiday injections

Postby tomvet » 24 May 2014 15:16

octocruiser wrote:
As regards the kids (and you are being emotive here and so too are the people that sell all things relating to kids including immunisation), certain immunisations are necessary i.e. whooping cough, HIB, menC, polio, TB, tetanus etc as they are highly contagious, ubiquitious and endemic and have severe consequences - the liklihood of contracting them are high and the severity if they occur are high. However, if you look at most travel sites the recommendation is that one is vaccinated against Rabies - agreed the severity if infected is high but the liklihood of it occurring is minute! Therefore, I would pass on that one! What are the chances of being bitten by a dog or being intimate with a bat (the flying variety!) when on a holiday if you take just reasonable precautions!

We tend to focus too much on the outcome if infected and really do not consider the liklihood of getting infected in the first place!



OK, Tom, I'm being emotive. :roll:

But sensible, logical people like yourself also apply similar arguments to buying a lottery ticket.

The fact remains that a number of people become millionaires every week by buying a lottery ticket and a great many more win life changing sums of money...... ;)

Xxxx



Not quite the same argument Kath - Lotto is about chance we are talking risk. Difference with the lotto is that you know the risk i.e. worst case and most likely scenario is that you will lose what you invest thereafter it can only get better. With a disease the risk is much more difficult to quantify whether it will happen and how bad it will be when it happens. We are told that the chances of an air accident are low and even when it does happen the chances are that you will survive it! :?
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Holiday injections

Postby octocruiser » 24 May 2014 16:23

Not quite the same argument Kath - Lotto is about chance we are talking risk. Difference with the lotto is that you know the risk i.e. worst case and most likely scenario is that you will lose what you invest thereafter it can only get better. With a disease the risk is much more difficult to quantify whether it will happen and how bad it will be when it happens. We are told that the chances of an air accident are low and even when it does happen the chances are that you will survive it!


May not be the same argument, but the choice remains.

In one scenario the ticket sellers imply that you only have to buy a ticket to be a millionaire. On the other hand the methematicians are are telling you that there is little or no chance of you winning.

I still buy a ticket because I know that people do win and most of those will have thought it would never happen to them.

In the other scenario there is the assurance from the doctors and drug suppliers telling you that by having the immunisation you will minimise your chances of getting the diseases. On the other hand you are being told that the chances of getting the disease is minimal anyway so don't lsten to what the doctors say.

I still have the jabs because I know that people do get these diseases and they also probably thought it woud never happen to them.

That's the way my simple little mind works :roll: ;)

Incidentally , like Pete, I also have a very good doctor whose advice I trust. :D :D


Cheers Kath xxx
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